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Enterprise Captain

April 2, 2016: Colorado Rapids vs. Toronto FC

29 posts in this topic

x65.png vs. x65.png

MLS Regular Season: Matchday #4
Saturday, April 2, 2016. 8:00pm EDT.
Dick's Sporting Goods Park. Commerce City, CO.

TV: TSN2
Video Webcast: TSN Go
Radio: N/A
Audio Webcast: N/A

Away Match Viewing: Joker Café

Match Preview: Here

Post-Match Update: 

Match Highlights

Match Recap

Final Score: 1-0

Edited by Enterprise Captain
Post-Match Update

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I wonder if this game will be on radio (AM 1050) since last one was, both games are on TSN of course.

It was nice to be able to heard game as i was stuck driving in tDot traffic. Also, whoever called game, called Toledo's actions "criminal" ;) Good to hear we're not only ones thinking so.

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arguably our best chance to secure three points of the games remaining on this trip in my opinion.

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I want 6 points from the next 3 matches. Colorado is not great, but improving (albeit not for a couple weeks til Jones returns). New England has yet to win, and were thrashed by the Union. DC United looks totally lost.

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i believe with the kickoff time lined up as they are, this week we should view at Joker and Next week at Duke.  This lets Jude sweat a bit and allows better options for USIL players each week.  That's my call, but i respect if others have a differing viewpoint...

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On ‎2016‎-‎03‎-‎30 at 4:08 PM, Breakwood said:

I want 6 points from the next 3 matches. Colorado is not great, but improving (albeit not for a couple weeks til Jones returns). New England has yet to win, and were thrashed by the Union. DC United looks totally lost.

yeah, good call - get Jozy back (and looks like he's feeling good) (and away from bmo, where he can't be hounded by idiot hometown "fans") and steal a couple of games here.

this would be a good time, now, too, as K.Doyle is out. and surely Bradley will know how to deal with Pappa after last Friday (anyone see that 'meg gif? yeeeesh), right?!

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3 minutes ago, KenFrom225 said:

yeah, good call - get Jozy back(and away from bmo, where he can't be hounded by idiot hometown "fans") 

 

I don't get this- Apart from Seba and DeRo, Jozy has more goals than anyone else who ever played for TFC.  Sure he's had some injury problems, and has maybe lost a step over the last few years, but why all the hate?

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3 minutes ago, Mel said:

I don't get this- Apart from Seba and DeRo, Jozy has more goals than anyone else who ever played for TFC.  Sure he's had some injury problems, and has maybe lost a step over the last few years, but why all the hate?

you got me. your points are true - heck, he had portions of last season where he looked like he couldn't miss!

I guess he's smooth enough that even when he's working hard he doesn't look like he's working hard (and he smiles a lot), so the lunchboxers/Gilmour-loving-types hate him - ??? i dunno - the barely-veiled snideness towards Jozy already made me give up on the Sportsnet590 TFC podcast, which i had been looking forward to...

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54 minutes ago, KenFrom225 said:

I guess he's smooth enough that even when he's working hard he doesn't look like he's working hard (and he smiles a lot), so the lunchboxers/Gilmour-loving-types hate him - ??? i dunno - the barely-veiled snideness towards Jozy already made me give up on the Sportsnet590 TFC podcast, which i had been looking forward to...

Just look at him.  He's a friggin tank.  Just thinking about how much he has to do to maintain his physique makes me tired...

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Cheyrou gets a red for basically playing football. Ridiculous. Still, the boys did themselves proud. We were the better team last night despite playing a man down at altitude for virtually the entire match.

The red ruined what would have been an entertaining contest, but let's hope this doesn't hurt our form because, as I said, it was still a performance to be proud of and if we play like that 11v11 I think we take all three points.

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Referees Again

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/referees-again/

Three of the four games Toronto FC has played in 2016 have seen the outcome significantly impacted by controversial referee decisions. Saturday in Denver was another example.

In this post game video blog I take a look at what I feel is a significant disconnect between the style of play in Major League Soccer versus the apparently conflicting mandate that the officials have been given.

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I'm probably in the minority here, but IMO the sending off was all on Cheyrou.

The second yellow was soft, yes, but legit in that he did have an elbow up. Given his experience and leadership, I think he was incredibly naive to have bet on the ref not giving out a second yellow so quickly. He put himself in a really risky situation and guessed wrong, and it cost the game.

I was glad to see how TFC played after, but I've also had enough moral victories to last quite a while.

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22 hours ago, herthabsc said:

The second yellow was soft, yes, but legit in that he did have an elbow up.

I kind of find this a double edged sword.  Yes, his elbow was up, but when you jump, in order to get a good amount of height, you need to use your arms.  I agree you need to be aware of who's around you, but at the same time players shouldn't second guess whether they go for the ball or not because they "may" hit someone.

I think it's something the league needs to look at and amend.

Edited by Mel

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Maybe, but I also think none of us would be talking about this as an example of a systemic refereeing problem if it had happened to a Rapids player.

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I think it is a new systemic problem. Buzz around MLS fans, journos seems to be that the league is cracking down on something. My concern is that there seems to be a return to the ridiculous NCAA refereeing standards of the past. All contact is not a foul, all fouls are not bookings. My view on the Cheyrou sending off is that they were both slightly harsh yellow cards, so the ref should have exercised his judgement and given Cheyrou the finger-wag/one more offense ticking off. Instead, he immediately determines the outcome of the game. I think that is what is infuriating fans more than the individual cards. Laba gets sent off for tackling as well for the Shitecaps.

Rather than an anti-Canadian team conspiracy, it stinks to me of an anti-"It's a fucking contact sport" conspiracy, which tells me I should pay a studs-up visit to the league office.

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12 minutes ago, GaryJambo said:

 which tells me I should pay a studs-up visit to the league office.

If you're selling tickets for that, I'll buy one.  It'd be a good show :)

And Carl, you're probably right.  Although I have heard this brought up on broadcasts before (the you need to use your arms when you jump argument), so it's not like we're the only ones saying "woe is me we got a bad call". 

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22 minutes ago, GaryJambo said:

I think it is a new systemic problem. Buzz around MLS fans, journos seems to be that the league is cracking down on something. My concern is that there seems to be a return to the ridiculous NCAA refereeing standards of the past. All contact is not a foul, all fouls are not bookings. My view on the Cheyrou sending off is that they were both slightly harsh yellow cards, so the ref should have exercised his judgement and given Cheyrou the finger-wag/one more offense ticking off. Instead, he immediately determines the outcome of the game. I think that is what is infuriating fans more than the individual cards. Laba gets sent off for tackling as well for the Shitecaps.

Rather than an anti-Canadian team conspiracy, it stinks to me of an anti-"It's a fucking contact sport" conspiracy, which tells me I should pay a studs-up visit to the league office.

I agree that there is a growing echo chamber effect that MLS refs are systematically too harsh this season.

I guess I temper that against a couple of other observations:

1. Every team forum on big soccer contains at least one thread where several of that teams fans are certain that MLS refs have it in for their team.

2. I think due to cultural and popularity factors, many people's baseline norm for judging fouls and cards are based on leagues which are some of the most free and easy with violent play going. I watch the Bundesliga weekly - hardly a soft league in terms of physicality - and neither card call on Cheyrou would have been out of place there. (Relatedly but separately, I also wonder whether some of the echo chamber is a kind of Don Cherry effect - after decades of supporting a sport understood as weak and effete by much of the dominant culture in this part of the world, there is a kind of built-in desire to understand the sport as butch and hard and resist measures that take away from that).

*My* objection to MLS refereeing is its inconsistency.

 

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1 hour ago, herthabsc said:

*My* objection to MLS refereeing is its inconsistency.

This ^^^^^^

Read any forum in almost any country and you will read someone somewhere say that the refs are **** ! There are some exceptions but most refs are not biased, and most are not totally inept but the one thing they have in common is that 99.999999999% of them seem to be ludicrously inconsistent.

Baldomero Toledo is a crap ref - or was in our first few seasons - then he seemed to settle down and do ok in many games at BMO (but not away from BMO) ... but then he has that shitshow the other week that did cost us the game --- which TFC got fined for because we 'crowded the ref' to complain. Elfath is an average ref who sometimes borders on competency and other times on head scratching inconsistency. There's an element of controversy in both the sending off and the goal. We can argue about offside yet even with the benefit of replay Nigel Reed thought probably 'just onside'. And the sending off - I blame Cheyrou for that. No question about the first yellow so most players (except Cheyrou and perhaps Perquis) would calm down for a few minutes. The second challenge was a soft yellow but coming so soon after the first one, the ref obviously decided the initial 'warning' was not heeded. Crappy performance from Elfath but we created the rod for our own backs in this one - unlike the previous week.     

Coincidentally I am just reading about the very same topic on my Inverness Caley Thistle forum about the ref on Saturday who 'allowed' Motherwell to go up the park after committing a foul on our striker in the box and score a 94th minute winner ! Shitty refereeing is a global phenomenon (a pandemic even !) 

Edited by Scotty

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Do you think bringing in video replay, and Coaches Challenges (say one per game for each side, with a central league office reviewing the play), would help the issue?

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17 minutes ago, Mel said:

Do you think bringing in video replay, and Coaches Challenges (say one per game for each side, with a central league office reviewing the play), would help the issue?

I've been an advocate of video replay for some time. Do it like rugby does it, on the fly, quick decision, no nonsense or making a production of it like the NFL does.

The question becomes what do you include under the purview of the review official? They probably don't review yellow cards (although they would do reds). That doesn't help TFC in Colorado, as I agree, I don't think the goal was offside, but I do think the goal is a result of TFC going down to ten men.

I agree with Carl, I think the biggest problem of the refereeing is the inconsistency. When Davy Arnaud retired recently (due to concussion symptoms), I joked on Twitter that I thought his retirement was due to an accumulation of yellow cards (for which Steven Goff blocked me, amazingly). Arnaud was that kind of scrappy little player in this league that will get to commit 20 fouls a game because they are all slightly beneath the ref's notice. Some players and teams seem invisible, while some are ... less so.

 

This weekend was a painfully obvious example of the refs implementing *something* in the officiating agenda -- it sucks to be the example for the class though, especially when it costs you points in a tight league. This once again points to integrity of the competition, and MLS has always struggled (ignored?) their stewardship role on that issue, in my view.

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1 hour ago, Mel said:

Do you think bringing in video replay, and Coaches Challenges (say one per game for each side, with a central league office reviewing the play), would help the issue?

Given the number of dodgy decisions made then I would have to say its worth a try but its a case of where do you draw the line and how do you implement it ... At BMO and other stadiums, the refs could simply turn their heads and view the big screen but they are not allowed to do so !!! I believe this is because not all clubs have them so they simply are not allowed to make or change a decision based on technology that may be available at one club but not at others ! (fair enough reasoning I guess - even if its a bit infuriating at times). I know I have shouted for the ref to "look at the f***** screen you #$@@#@#$$#!@" on numerous occasions over the years !!!! 

The TV companies get the replays up in seconds, so perhaps there is merit in requiring a 5th official to be present and to be able to view a replay of something quickly but only when there is a stop in play. This would allow them to review offside, yellow/red card fouls, or other game changing incidents. I think this should be at the discretion of the ref if used and perhaps as you suggest, allow one challenge per manager per game (or per half?).

It may help with wrong decisions, but I fear it would not help with referee inconsistency, but thats a human condition we are never likely to solve ! I also doubt it would do away with the need for a committee to decide on additional punishments when they retroactively apply or increase a punishment on a player or team for an unseen incident or one that ends up being worse than first viewed. .  

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, GaryJambo said:

I think it is a new systemic problem. Buzz around MLS fans, journos seems to be that the league is cracking down on something. My concern is that there seems to be a return to the ridiculous NCAA refereeing standards of the past. All contact is not a foul, all fouls are not bookings. My view on the Cheyrou sending off is that they were both slightly harsh yellow cards, so the ref should have exercised his judgement and given Cheyrou the finger-wag/one more offense ticking off. Instead, he immediately determines the outcome of the game. I think that is what is infuriating fans more than the individual cards. Laba gets sent off for tackling as well for the Shitecaps.

Rather than an anti-Canadian team conspiracy, it stinks to me of an anti-"It's a fucking contact sport" conspiracy, which tells me I should pay a studs-up visit to the league office.

I totally agree. Felipe's red card (NE vs NY) is absolute prove of what Gary is saying.

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If they can use Hawkeye to correct calls in Rugby, Cricket and Tennis; there has to be a way to implement it in soccer. If you can set up the system to read the lines on the field it shouldn't be too difficult to use it to judge offside calls, and goals.

I don't think it's feasible at the moment to use reply on fouls though. There's way too much judgement there. 

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